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Re: AB5 and CLSA

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:25 pm
by TTaylor
Again the lack of professional curtesy rears its head. A common occurrence on this forum.

Remember Stan Myron?

Re: AB5 and CLSA

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:13 pm
by Mr. Smith
I do not get it TT?? seems like blowing off steam to me, some have a lot of steam, toot toot myself included.

Back to AB5: I have a feeling most land surveyors will not let AB 5 cause worry or change the way they do business, consult, or contract.
I must admit being close to retirement helps.

Re: AB5 and CLSA

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:28 pm
by E_Page
"Again the lack of professional curtesy rears its head."

Huh? Where and by whom?

Re: AB5 and CLSA

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:49 pm
by Mr. Smith
Must be a Fresno grad not OIT like us.

Re: AB5 and CLSA

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:24 pm
by TTaylor
.

Re: AB5 and CLSA

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:14 pm
by Edward M Reading
Go Hustlin' Owls!

Re: AB5 and CLSA

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:16 am
by Mr. Smith
AB5
TTaylor and Mike P. “iligitimus non carboridium” I applaud all your efforts to watch policy changes and prevent them from grinding our craft into paste.


On another note:
Not to cause discontent but,
I hereby state that Klamath Falls OIT grads (other than a few 2 sigma outliers) are much more skilled and practiced than Fresno or Berkley grads at driving on icy roads.


Brian

“We have not journeyed all this way across the centuries, across the oceans, across the mountains, across the prairies, because we are made of sugar candy.”
-Sir Winston Churchill

Re: AB5 and CLSA

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:20 pm
by mpallamary
If anyone in San Diego is interested, there will be a small seminar on AB5 on February 4.

Dan Eaton is a great attorney and he writes articles on labor issues.

Re: AB5 and CLSA

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:21 pm
by mpallamary
it would be helpful if CLSA were to send a representative.

Re: AB5 and CLSA

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:42 pm
by TTaylor
Brian...Way too funny. Thank you for the lighter note.

We all have the best interest of our chosen profession at heart. And, yes, we are a profession that is small and best served by working together.

Re: AB5 and CLSA

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:36 pm
by mpallamary
Amen.

Re: AB5 and CLSA

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:32 pm
by mpallamary
I reached out to Ric today and he sent me the attached letter. Thank you Ric for the assistance. I am trying to find out if the geologists have any thoughts. This is a controversial bill and there are a lot of legal challenges.

Re: AB5 and CLSA

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:46 am
by mpallamary
In speaking with Ric Moore, with the state board, he informed me that the Board did not specifically review AB 5. There was no other communication between BPELSG and any other entity on the Dynamex ruling or AB 5 and there is not knowledge for how the language was developed or why.

Does anyone know why the "engineers" were deemed exempt while survey engineers and geologists were not?

Re: AB5 and CLSA

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:49 am
by mpallamary
If anyone is interested, see the attached, page 6.

Re: AB5 and CLSA

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:35 pm
by LS_8750
What I find odd is that the ACEC California president in 2019 was an LS, or excuse me, a PLS.

Re: AB5 and CLSA

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:40 pm
by Brad L
Doesn't AB5 only prevent the hiring of "independent contractors" to conduct survey work under the responsible charge of the LS?

In Even's examples, if he is soliciting work land surveying work from either firms or clients, doesn't he needs a business license? My understanding is yes, he would need a business license. If that is case, Evan's examples are exempt from AB5, "business to business". Unless all of his surveying work came from one client and he didn't have a business license, then he may be considered that client's employee. If Evan tried to procure work he would be in responsible charge of, without a business license, wouldn't he be in violation of State and Federal law?

Now if Evan solicited survey work, signed a contract with a client (engineering firm, home owner, etc...), and needed the neighborhood handyman to help him, only that handyman would not be exempt from AB5, and Evan would have to pay him as an employee.

This is my understanding of AB5, and I think this wouldn't affect most people, except those looking to hire part-time hands when needed.

Re: AB5 and CLSA

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:23 pm
by TTaylor
I find it difficult to understand how The Board didn't review a law that exempted some of the professions they register and regulate but not others in the same professional standing under their purview.

"No impact on the Boards operations"??

In other words, if a non-exempted professional under the purview of BPELSG is prosecuted for violating AB5 or not providing a contract because they apparently are employess, BPELSG will do nothing.

Good to know.

Re: AB5 and CLSA

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:57 pm
by DWoolley
Tom Taylor:

There is a laundry list of legitimate complaints to be proffered, based on the actions and inactions, with the BPELSG staff over the last 7-8 years. However, I have to give them a pass on AB5. The BPELSG staff was asked to review the bill in March 2019. At that time, March 2019, there were no exemptions for any licenses under their umbrella. To an untrained eye, the correlation of their constituency and the effects of a business model would not be readily apparent. The bill was amended in July 2019 to add exemptions for engineers - almost four months after their review. I suspect the bill didn't even make the BPELSG watch list.

DWoolley

Re: AB5 and CLSA

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:07 pm
by TTaylor
Thanks, Dave.

IMO, reviewing something and then missing revisions later on that directly affect those under their purview is not an excuse but an indication of negligence or incompetence on their part.

I realize that everyone is working hard and doing their best. Sometimes that falls short.

Take care, Dave. I hope you and your family had a great holiday season and a prosperous 2020.

Re: AB5 and CLSA

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:45 pm
by mpallamary
For the record, my inquiries are simply that. There are a lot of questions and as a small business owner, and licensed professional, I am concerned. Moreover, and assuming there are problems, I note that a lot of other "professions" impacted by this bill are appealing it.

Once again, if we are licensed as "engineers" as the B&P Code says, why aren't we exempt?

Why are geologists included with us, pizza drivers, and strippers?

Re: AB5 and CLSA

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:02 pm
by TTaylor
*Big sigh*

As i communicated earlier on this thread, we are not engineers.

Also, engineers are not Land surveyors.

I will say from my experiences that Land surveyors are much better ewuiped to do engineering work than engineers arenequiped to do pls work.

With out a doubt.

Re: AB5 and CLSA

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:11 pm
by Warren Smith
Does the IRS perspective of receiving a 1099 rather than a W2 have any bearing? That seems to be based on a contractual relationship.

Re: AB5 and CLSA

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:10 pm
by mpallamary
More lawsuits filed over AB5.

"An organization representing translators and interpreters on Thursday said it is lobbying state lawmakers to also exempt its members. It says many “are truly independent contractors” caught up in the new restrictions intended to help employees who had been wrongly classified by employers. . . Aside from the lawsuits, she said there will be a continued tug-of-war in the Legislature this year between groups that want to expand and narrow the law. “We have not heard the end of AB5 in any way shape or form,” Miller said. “I think we’ll continue to see attempts to deal with some of the fallout of the legislation.”

Per: https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/ne ... o-truckers

Does CLSA have a lobbying plan like everyone else?

Re: AB5 and CLSA

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:37 am
by mpallamary

Re: AB5 and CLSA

Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:24 pm
by dedkad
I just received my auto insurance renewal in the mail. Certain professionals are granted a discount. Engineers get a discount. Surveyors don't.