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Monuments set by Calif Dept of Water Resources

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:53 am
by mbstanton
Does any one know now to do research for the source of monuments set by the California Dept. of Water Resources?

I just found a monument at a section corner in SLO county that reads:

CALIF DEPT WATER RES
32/33/5/4
LS 6045

Most likely set in the mid-1990's for the state water project.

I'm hoping that this monument perpetuated the position of a 4"x4" post found in the 1980's, but without a map, I have no way to know.

thanks
Mike Stanton, PLS 5702

Re: Monuments set by Calif Dept of Water Resources

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 7:16 am
by David Kendall
I suggest a CPRA request. This might get you a response.

Not sure about this particular monument but the situation sounds similar to the problem I had in the past with DOT. Apparently most of the state employed surveyors have deemed themselves “official” thus culturally above the survey filing requirements.

Essentially it’s a race to the bottom led by publicly funded unfiled surveys. They are emotionally sensitive about it too, I’ve been castigated in private messages for suggesting that “official” surveyors still have a legal obligation to file survey records....

My MO is to try a few times to get the documentation for provenance of the monument from the agency then if I can’t add a note to the survey which states that I tried and the agency declined the request. It might be more difficult to resolve on a section corner than it would on a highway ROW but this is how California works....

Re: Monuments set by Calif Dept of Water Resources

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 7:21 am
by SPMPLS
Contact Pat Tami @ patrick.tami@water.ca.gov

I don't think that LS number is correct, however. The person issued that number has never worked for DWR, as far as I know and they didn't use consultants back when they did the Coastal pipeline project, which is what that would have been set for.

Re: Monuments set by Calif Dept of Water Resources

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 7:29 am
by SPMPLS
My guess is the number is 6043 issued to Donald Gruner, who was a party chief at DWR during the Coastal project. I believe the picture confirms that.

Re: Monuments set by Calif Dept of Water Resources

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:00 am
by bryanmundia
Pursuant to 8765(a), shouldn't there be a record of this monument at the County Surveyor's office? Public officer or not, 8765(a) does not exempt them from filing their map with the County Surveyor, it only exempts them from recording the document with the County Recorder's office correct?

Re: Monuments set by Calif Dept of Water Resources

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:06 am
by SPMPLS
I don't know if Mike checked the Corner Records at the County? Often, when a monument was set to perpetuate an existing corner, DWR filed Corner Records. I believe that the "in lieu" maps were filed with the County Surveyor, but that was well before my time of supervising anything there.

As an aside, I worked on Don Gruner's crew just before he retired. He studied for, took, and passed the PLS exam without telling anyone he worked with. He had been a surveyor his whole working life and was really good at it. When he retired, he left his stamp in his desk and never surveyed again, as far as I know. He was "done." That was in about 1995 or so.

Re: Monuments set by Calif Dept of Water Resources

Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 7:32 am
by RAM
would only have to file if a trigger was met by the PLSA. Set a mon. itself does not trigger a CR or map, it is the intent of the mon. which without additional evidence is unknown.

Re: Monuments set by Calif Dept of Water Resources

Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:01 am
by Mr. Smith
There is a map you just need to find it from DWR. I came across about (100) 3/4 ip's monumenting a ROW for a road. After many phone calls I was able to get a copy of the map and it was a good one but not of record. I had to file a ROS my self cause of statutes.

Brian

Re: Monuments set by Calif Dept of Water Resources

Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:49 pm
by Jim Frame
Set a mon. itself does not trigger a CR or map, it is the intent of the mon. which without additional evidence is unknown.


A monument marked as a section corner and bearing a licensee's number (see photo) is prima facie evidence that it is intended to mark a section corner. A CR is required at minimum.

Re: Monuments set by Calif Dept of Water Resources

Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:11 pm
by Mr. Smith
Monumented at ROW intersections with property lines.

Re: Monuments set by Calif Dept of Water Resources

Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:16 pm
by bryanmundia
RAM wrote:would only have to file if a trigger was met by the PLSA. Set a mon. itself does not trigger a CR or map, it is the intent of the mon. which without additional evidence is unknown.


I believe 8771(b) would trigger an RS or CR as it states "When monuments exist that control the location of subdivisions, tracts, boundaries,
roads, streets, or highways, or provide horizontal or vertical survey control, the monuments shall be located and referenced by or under the direction of a licensed land surveyor or licensed civil engineer legally authorized to practice land surveying prior to the time when any streets, highways, other rights-of-way, or easements are improved, constructed, reconstructed, maintained, resurfaced, or relocated, and a corner record or record of survey of the references shall be filed with the county surveyor


Besides that, since this is a Section corner, 8773(a) applies which also triggers a CR as it states " Except as provided in subdivision (b) of Section 8773.4, a person authorized to practice land surveying in this state shall complete, sign, stamp with his or her seal, and file with the county surveyor or engineer of the county where the corners are situated, a written record of corner establishment or restoration to be known as a “corner record” for every corner established by the Survey of the Public Lands of the United States, except “lost corners,” as defined by the Manual of Surveying Instructions (2009), published by the federal Bureau of Land Management and every accessory to such corner which is found, set, reset, or used as control in any survey by
such authorized person."


If we are talking about a hypothetical corner that is being set that isn't a Section corner, I believe you are still on the hook as 8762(b)(1) states: "Material evidence or physical change, which in whole or in part does not appear on any subdivision map, official map, or record of survey previously recorded or properly filed in the office of the county recorder or county surveying department, or map or survey record maintained by the Bureau of Land Management of the United States." In my opinion, you setting a monument that is not of the original character (i.e. size, type, stamping of tag, etc.) constitutes a physical change to anyone that follows in your footsteps.

Besides that I believe 8762(b)(4) and 8762(b)(5) would put you on the hook to file if you are out there setting points that are on a boundary line. You'll notice that 8762(b)(5) says "The points or lines set during the performance of a field survey of any parcel described in any deed or other instrument of title recorded in the county recorder’s office are not shown on any subdivision map, official map, or record of survey" to me that means that if you set a monument at a corner (i.e. a point) you are on the hook as well.

I have never understood why the vast majority of surveyors want to fight about when an RS or CR is required. What kind of service are we doing to the public and profession if we are always constantly looking for the loophole/way out of not doing it. I feel like those that are fighting this fight of when not to file are similar to those that get caught speeding and then try to talk their way out of the ticket from the cop. Hardly ever works but every once in a while it does, or so we hear through a fabled story passed down from generation to generation.

I one day imagine a utopia where every surveyor files a record of survey or corner record on a survey they perform. Doesn't it sound nice? Just think about how easy it would be to survey if everyone just filed an RS or CR of their surveys.